Automated Transcript
Ivan:
[0:00]
| You're shaking your head.
|
Sam:
[0:01]
| Greetings waiting for it to kick in you hear me okay yeah i'm okay, we're all going uh yeah shall we uh shall we just go yeah okay here comes Transcription, by CastingWords Welcome to Curmudgeons Corner for Saturday, September 5th, 2026. It's just before 1830 UTC. I'm Sam Mentor, Yvonne Boas here. Hello again, Yvonne.
|
Ivan:
[0:58]
| Hi.
|
Sam:
[1:00]
| So as usual, we'll talk less newsy stuff at the beginning and get more and more newsy as the time goes on. So, Ivan, anything exciting going on? I got a movie and a TV show, I guess. I don't know.
|
Ivan:
[1:17]
| Mostly first world problems.
|
Sam:
[1:19]
| Yeah.
|
Ivan:
[1:20]
| It's just, you know, my flight was delayed three hours yesterday. Look, I got a flat tire. On Tuesday, as I was heading to take Manu to school to then go to the airport, I saw that I had a flat tire. And I'm like, I don't know. So anyway, I had to go back and take my wife's car, to drop him off at school. And I was leaving early enough that I had plenty of time. So I went and I called an Uber. Okay, I had to take an Uber to the airport, which I rarely do. I don't like it, number one. I really don't like being driven. I don't particularly enjoy it.
|
Sam:
[1:59]
| Okay.
|
Ivan:
[2:01]
| Especially by a random stranger.
|
Sam:
[2:03]
| I've never used Uber, but I've used Lyft quite a bit. Well, whatever. Never really minded.
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Ivan:
[2:07]
| Or ride share. Whatever.
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Sam:
[2:08]
| Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.
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Ivan:
[2:09]
| Or a taxi.
|
Sam:
[2:10]
| They're pretty much the same, and usually it's the same damn car because they're using both.
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Ivan:
[2:14]
| A whole bunch of times you've got guys that go on both.
|
Sam:
[2:16]
| Doing both, right, yeah. But I've never minded. I've never minded at all. it's it's you know i.
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Ivan:
[2:22]
| Don't fucking like it do the thing i pretty much hate it yeah okay so, so i i did that then well coming back i had to do the same thing, first asshole that i that i called for an uber ride first when i called a ride and i've noticed this happened a couple of times where where you call a ride, and the driver accepts the the the the ride but that doesn't actually start heading your way.
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Sam:
[2:50]
| Right.
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Ivan:
[2:51]
| It's sitting there somewhere, not moving. And then... I sent him a message, hey, are you coming or what? It's like, what, what, like, he can't see that I can't notice that son of a bitch is not moving? So then he started coming. And then at Miami airport, there are very specific things of where to, where to pick up points are. Upper level, lower level, so you have to be, and so I had specifically lower level. Door six. This asshole went, and as he came, I noticed, all of a sudden, supposedly he had arrived, but he went upstairs. Even though the app clearly said that it was at the lower level not the upper level so I texted him hey dumbass, you're the upper level so what did he do he cancelled the run and this is after waiting 10 minutes for this asshole, and then I had to get another guy this guy did show up so I got here annoying, I like sorry but when I got to the airport I much prefer getting to my fucking car and going home right okay so, dishwasher guys came in, dishwasher couldn't be installed our dishwasher is having a problem where it's leaking water so it's not.
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Sam:
[4:03]
| So you're are you replacing a dishwasher or getting it fixed.
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Ivan:
[4:07]
| We're replacing it because look it's it's over old it's it's old this is not the first problem it's had are you getting one of.
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Sam:
[4:15]
| Those new ones they just announced it has a camera inside there was there was like a news story this week of like a.
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Ivan:
[4:21]
| Dishwasher with a.
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Sam:
[4:22]
| Camera inside and ai it looks at your dishes decides what it should do you know all this kind of stuff.
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Ivan:
[4:28]
| No no um no but but i was getting a i don't know i was getting a i had a bosch i was getting a bosch i was getting you know i got the one that appears to be the highest rated most recommended dishwasher of their series.
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Sam:
[4:42]
| Okay.
|
Ivan:
[4:43]
| All right. So guy came in. The first thing to do is turn off the valve for the water line heading to there. My valve's broken. Nice can't do the install i had to call plumber which i guess is coming tomorrow, and then i spent three days going round and round with my, i was trying to see i i i didn't get my tires last time at the dealer i got him at costco i tried to see if the dealer could get the tires and so i could get it installed i spent three days texting him couldn't get a straight answer, so i went to costco today to see if they have the tires they apparently they they they don't, have the exact tire which is really annoying i don't understand this thing where, i have the summer tires i noticed that getting the because where i live i live in fucking florida i don't need all season tires.
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Sam:
[5:34]
| Yeah you you don't need the like super winterized.
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Ivan:
[5:37]
| Anything no i don't need all season tires okay right right this car you're not going to drive to minnesota next week no no and so i i not that it's like.
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Sam:
[5:48]
| Cold in minnesota right now anyway.
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Ivan:
[5:50]
| Well not right now but but you know yeah but but i'm not going you know i'm not going to drive to a winter climate in that car i mean, it may if it happens it will be a rare occurrence so i i don't need all season tires i want the summer tires which are better performing in the wet and other things and i i try and so but for whatever the hell reason, most of these guys don't have the the summer tire is an order only option i have to get the they have an all season they have this the tire i have but the all season version, and i'm like fine fuck it just put the stick you know i'll get the i'll get that one but but they were booked up today at costco so i'll, i'll have it done tomorrow the thing is that i gotta figure out how to get the car over there right now. Because...
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Sam:
[6:33]
| Because it's got a flat still.
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Ivan:
[6:35]
| It's flat. And... I haven't tried the, so I've tried this thing a couple of times before. It never worked where it's got this fluid where it's supposed to, you have this pump and this thing, and it's supposed to temporarily patch the tire so you can take it to get replaced. Okay. I mean, because once you use that goo, you can't, the tire's gone. Okay. So I'm going to try to see if that will inflate the tire. Okay. You know, so that I could at least nurse it to get the tire replaced. But if that doesn't work, then I got to get a tote. Which I am now at the point where I'm considering that I think I am going to buy a spare wheel and a spare tire and a jack to keep it in my garage. So if this happens again I have a fucking spare maybe I'm not driving around with it but if I get the car, well the thing is that I can get the car home probably at some point and if I have the spare tire there I don't have to go through this thing of trying to get to a store and doing all this stuff if I already have, a spare tire with a wheel mounted I can just you know get the car home pop the tire on and we're set Okay.
|
Sam:
[8:03]
| Assuming you can get home. I mean, even if it's towed home, your normal routine is pretty close to home, right? Oh, even if it's towed home.
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Ivan:
[8:13]
| Right? Even if it's towed home, at least I don't have to go. And then after I get home, then I, you know, have to go through all of this other shit. At least I get home and I immediately, boom, done.
|
Sam:
[8:23]
| It's not like you're driving habits or you're driving back and forth to Boston on a regular basis or something. You're within 20, 25 miles of home most of the time. 50 at most. Okay. Yeah. So, and they'll tell you 50 miles, no problem.
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Ivan:
[8:39]
| Exactly.
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Sam:
[8:40]
| Yeah. So, okay.
|
Ivan:
[8:41]
| So, so I think that's, I think that's, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to order a wheel. I'm going to get a tire mounted on it with one of my tires as a spare. I'm going to, I'm going to get the jack because there's no jack in the car. I'm going to get a proper jack for it. I'm going to keep it in the garage. I know how to fucking change a tire. And the next time it happens, I, I at least got a spare tire in the fucking garage for this.
|
Sam:
[9:03]
| I know there's no longer a dedicated space for it, but you could give up your trunk space for it or even just put it in a passenger seat, put a seatbelt on it.
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Ivan:
[9:11]
| Oh, well, I could do, oh, that would be nice. That'd be great. People, that'd be lovely. Sure.
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Sam:
[9:17]
| It's your friend.
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Ivan:
[9:18]
| It's my friend. Yes, look, my friend. Look, Michelin Pilot Sport 4. My best friend.
|
Sam:
[9:26]
| Exactly. You know, it'd be perfect.
|
Ivan:
[9:28]
| So, no, I'm not going to ride around Well, the tire is my best friend now in the car. But I think it's a sensible thing to just get a damn spare wheel.
|
Sam:
[9:43]
| You ranted about the fact that this isn't like a default for a while, like on the show. You know, why did they stop doing this?
|
Ivan:
[9:51]
| It's really annoying. Their solution is, and here's the thing. For a while, BMW did this, but their solution, which I thought was the best solution, was, hey, we're going to ship our cars with zero, run flat tires. And and that was i you know that was fine that was much better than this, but many people complained about it because with a run flat tires you don't have as many options for tires afterwards okay because not all tires come in run flat, i think bmw did think that run flats would become like the standard and the reality is that they haven't which is really baffling to me, how this is not a the standard right, another thing that people complain about to run flats is that in order for a tire to be a proper run flat, One of the sacrifices that is done is that the tire actually has a harsher ride.
|
Sam:
[10:51]
| Okay, yeah.
|
Ivan:
[10:53]
| Because the sidewalls are a lot stiffer. So that means that there's a lot less give on the tire.
|
Sam:
[10:58]
| Okay, yeah. Trade-offs?
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Ivan:
[11:01]
| Yeah, so people complained about that. I couldn't give two flying fucks about it. I think that that's a perfectly sensible trade-off for the security of a run flat. Because when I had run flats on my car and this kind of stuff happened, it was a non-issue because I would get TPMS would tell me, hey, this tire was flat. You've got a puncture. And usually, almost every time it was repairable. I didn't even have to replace the tire. They could patch the tire. And somehow we've made this greatly backwards in technology. As we've made a lot of greatly backwards in the last 20 years. We seem to be fucking, I don't know.
|
Sam:
[11:48]
| Throw a couple more examples out.
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Ivan:
[11:50]
| I mean, what are you thinking of? Let's see. Think about shit. We've taken away people's rights. We've gone, I mean, what are we doing?
|
Sam:
[11:59]
| I thought you were talking specifically tech, like, you know, technology stuff.
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Ivan:
[12:03]
| No, I'm talking in general that we seem to be.
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Sam:
[12:06]
| That's different.
|
Ivan:
[12:06]
| You know, we used to be in an era of progress and it seems like Now, you know, it was all progress, right? Clean energy. You know, people's rights, you know, safer technology. And somehow, you know, in vehicle safety, we've made a whole bunch of things that make the car safer. But then we did this thing, which makes no fucking sense whatsoever. Nobody can tell me that this is safer in any way.
|
Sam:
[12:39]
| And we've done other things that trend towards the less safe for, like, the thing I keep thinking about, is the big, huge SUVs that may be fine for the occupant, but, like, you know.
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Ivan:
[12:51]
| But everybody else around is, you know, is more in danger. Yes, absolutely.
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Sam:
[12:56]
| Like, you see all these diagrams of, like, how many children you can, like, stack in front of one of these before the driver can actually see them.
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Ivan:
[13:06]
| Right.
|
Sam:
[13:07]
| Things like that. You know, yes, yes. It's like, and often, you know, it's one thing when there's utilities. to it it's another thing when it's just like it's cool to have a really big vehicle you know.
|
Ivan:
[13:21]
| Right because that's it there's no utility in it it's it's not like you know you take a toyota sienna minivan right okay uh current toyota van probably i think people agree probably the best one for sale out there, hybrid van gets you almost 40 50 miles per gallon seats eight people seven or eight With your luggage and everything Comfortable, safe, You know, everything that you need For a big family vehicle And it's much smaller than these behemoths And this thing will do almost all the things That the other car needs better But, More efficient, but yet we choose the fucking massive, gargantuan SUV.
|
Sam:
[14:08]
| Well, I've heard along the same lines, and you can correct me if this is bullshit, but like, you know, on the, you know, the whole pickup truck thing with like, you know, that people don't, don't really use the truck beds anyway.
|
Ivan:
[14:22]
| 90 plus percent of the people don't use them. And then they keep getting even bigger pickup trucks.
|
Sam:
[14:27]
| Right. With smaller beds often.
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Ivan:
[14:29]
| With smaller beds, yes. Yeah.
|
Sam:
[14:31]
| But people have said, like, if you actually wanted, like, because people justify it, well, what if I need to haul cargo, whatever. But people have looked at it and said, well, if you really want to haul cargo, the best thing is like a panel van or something like that.
|
Ivan:
[14:45]
| Probably, yeah.
|
Sam:
[14:46]
| You know, you just, it's enclosed, so it protects what's in it. And it's actually got decent volume, bigger area of what would be the bed. And sometimes you get also these people comparing the actual cargo area of these tiny little Japanese trucks to the massive American trucks.
|
Ivan:
[15:10]
| And they're almost the same.
|
Sam:
[15:12]
| And they're almost sometimes bigger. They're bigger.
|
Ivan:
[15:15]
| It doesn't make any sense. The little Japanese K vehicles. Yeah. They're more convenient. Look, Ford did something. Look, they kept releasing bigger and more expensive and bigger trucks, right? Then somehow, some product guy snuck in, hey, let's build a small, cheap pickup truck called Ford Maverick. Now let's let's see what happens demand has been through the roof, they have now been able to keep up with the man and the reality is because a lot of people wound up buying the other pickup trucks which is the only other, uh pickup trucks available, or maybe because they just just didn't see an option and then all of a sudden they presented to them a small practical fuel economical pickup truck that was nice and they were like oh look at this, this is great and it's cheap and it's and it gets 40 miles per gallon i don't eat this other massive pickup truck so they've been selling out like crazy.
|
Sam:
[16:16]
| And you can throw a spare tire in the back.
|
Ivan:
[16:18]
| And you can just throw up every yes.
|
Sam:
[16:25]
| Okay anything else ivan or should we move on i got a movie i got a i've got a.
|
Ivan:
[16:29]
| Tv show come on What do we got? What do we got?
|
Sam:
[16:31]
| Okay, this time, from 1955, Godzilla Raids Again. So this is, it's the second Godzilla movie. After the original 1954 Godzilla, I'll read you a quick plot. In 1955, a pilot named Shoiki Tusakawa, who is working for Kayo Fishing, Inc., guides a fishing trawler towards a school of Bonito. Koji Kobayashi, another pilot, faces engine troubles and makes an emergency landing on Iwato Island. Suikawa is sent to rescue Kobayashi, but they both encounter two giant dinosaurian creatures locked in battle, Godzilla and a new quadruped monster. The pilots escape as the monsters tumble into the sea.
|
Sam:
[17:24]
| Tsukika and Kobayashi go to Osaka to help Dr. Yamane and the authorities investigate the encounter. The new monster is identified as an ankylosaurus-like carnivore named Angurius. Dr. Yamane shows the authorities footage of the first Godzilla attack and notes that the first Godzilla was killed by the oxygen destroyer, but its inventor died, and that there are no proven countermeasures left against Godzilla. Dr. Yamani suggests using a blackout and using drop flares to lure Godzilla away due to the first Godzilla being sensitive to light. Dot, dot, dot. Continues. Monster fights. Godzilla stomping on buildings. All of the stuff you normally expect in these films. And, you know, we've actually...
|
Ivan:
[18:12]
| Was this subtitled or dubbed?
|
Sam:
[18:14]
| Oh, no, no. We are purists. We are going with original language and English subtitles.
|
Ivan:
[18:23]
| Okay.
|
Sam:
[18:23]
| Sometimes this has caused us problems on later movies to actually find the right configuration. There was a recent movie and I'm not going to review it right now, but there was a King Kong movie.
|
Ivan:
[18:36]
| Okay.
|
Sam:
[18:37]
| That was, it was a Japanese King Kong movie and it was only available in Japanese, with no subtitles or with English dubbing. It was not available. I searched everywhere. It was not available in Japanese with English subtitles. So I'll eventually get to this one in order, but it'll probably be a year from now. So I'll tell this part of the story now. So for the first time in like well over a decade, probably close to 20 years.
|
Sam:
[19:17]
| I pirated something. And I torrented this because somebody out there on the internet, had helpfully made a version that was Japanese with English subtitles, but it was not available to purchase freaking anywhere. You know, it's just some fan had gotten the Japanese version and the English subtitles and properly merged them, re-synchronized them. Because there were also some slight differences between the Japanese and the American version in terms of how it was edited. But they rebuilt the subtitles, they put it all together, they made it available. And so I spent like, you know, I let the torrent, it took like 12 hours to torrent the damn video. and then we played it off my computer and we were able to successfully do that.
|
Sam:
[20:11]
| But anyway, no, no. In Japanese with English subtitles and we've got like, we bought like the box set, okay? Because like some of these movies are only available in the box set or only available in the box set in like proper quality and with the subtitles and blah, blah, blah. So we bought a box set with all the goddamn Godzilla movies and we're working our way through them. And look, my review of this is going to be, at least until we get to the modern Godzilla movies, which I gather have a different vibe, for all of these old ones, My review is probably going to be about the same, which are, these are not good movies.
|
Ivan:
[20:56]
| They're that bad?
|
Sam:
[20:57]
| No, but, but they are the kind.
|
Ivan:
[21:00]
| Is it bad in a way that it's good? Is that what you're telling me?
|
Sam:
[21:03]
| Yes.
|
Ivan:
[21:03]
| Ah, I see.
|
Sam:
[21:05]
| They are bad in the way that they are fucking hilarious. And you spend the whole damn movie laughing. Like, you know, and if you take them.
|
Ivan:
[21:16]
| Let me ask a question. Was that the movie maker's intent? You know, well, you know, you make a movie and you're intending to be a comedy, right? You know, like, for example, you don't make a drama, for example, where people are dying and people wind up laughing. Well, that would be bad. Okay? You know, if you think that you're making a tearjerker and all of a sudden, you know, you know what I'm saying?
|
Sam:
[21:42]
| I'd have to research it. I don't know for sure. But, like, because it's presented earnestly for the most part. You know like the the characters are acting seriously it's it's sort of like a drama i think some of the later ones we've watched, i think are more intentional i don't know but but fundamentally you've got a guy in a big rubber suit, like stomping on cardboard buildings and stuff you know like at a certain point like, how can you not laugh i mean and i realize but and and and actually, be careful about this these were low budget to begin with i mean you know on the one hand you're like oh it was the 1950s you know everything was sort of campy and and cheap and special effects weren't that good but that's not entirely true i.
|
Ivan:
[22:38]
| Just checked i.
|
Sam:
[22:39]
| Just checked.
|
Ivan:
[22:42]
| Is this called Godzilla Raids again, right?
|
Sam:
[22:44]
| Yeah, that's the one that's the second one.
|
Ivan:
[22:47]
| Yeah it was not intended to be a comedy, okay in fact, it was produced as a dark, serious horror movie that directly revisited the grim post-war themes of the original, okay, okay however it, inadvertently laid the brown work for the sillier era of the franchise due to how it was made. So apparently... They did not intend it to be a comedy, but it seems that people took it that way anyway.
|
Sam:
[23:23]
| I mean, that's the thing with these. And like I said, we're like a couple movies further into the series at this point. And I think they start to lean into it at that point.
|
Ivan:
[23:33]
| Yeah, that's exactly, that's apparently what happens, yes.
|
Sam:
[23:37]
| Right. But like, but here it's just, it is, you cannot help but laughing at the ridiculousness of what is going on on your screen. And, you know, and then you've got characters who seemingly are like taking this seriously. And, and you've got like over the top acting and like, even with the language barrier, you can tell it's like over the top melodramatic, you know, et cetera. And you know so we are enjoying this series as we slowly go through it but it is like the, the mocking of it and the you know just how ridiculous things are the really bad special effects all of this kind of stuff, and it's just it's fun it's fun and it's campy it's fun You can't take it seriously at all, even though apparently they intended it seriously, but, you know, whatever. And, yeah, it's just enjoyable for that kind of thing. So, there you go. That's Godzilla Raids again.
|
Ivan:
[24:50]
| Okay.
|
Sam:
[24:51]
| Have you ever watched any of these?
|
Ivan:
[24:53]
| I think I did, like, a long, long time ago, yes. Like, probably, like, back in the 70s. I am pretty sure I did. Mm-hmm. But it's been a long time. I mean, yeah, it's been quite a long time.
|
Sam:
[25:09]
| Yeah. Yeah, it's worth maybe picking out one or two to just mock them and laugh. Alex wants me to point out that just in the last couple weeks, well, his school started again this week. So we're back in school, which means we're back into a rotation where usually we grab him some lunch at McDonald's before we head out there. Now, before everybody gets on me about McDonald's lunch and being unhealthy every day, Alex's normal order is apples, an order of apples and some apple juice. Okay. We get that on the way to school. It's part of the routine. Yvonne's like shaking his head like, what the fuck? You know, why would you do that? You could get apples other places.
|
Ivan:
[25:55]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[25:56]
| Well, they come in a little bag, pre-slices, you know. Okay.
|
Ivan:
[26:00]
| Yeah. Yeah, and I slice up apples for my son and put them in a little package and send those to school.
|
Sam:
[26:09]
| If we buy apples at home, we just find them a few months later, shriveled up and full of flies. So it's better this way.
|
Ivan:
[26:17]
| Fair. I can't argue with that.
|
Sam:
[26:26]
| We also have an apple tree in the front yard that produces apples every year. My mother keeps trying to convince us to eat the apples from our own tree. And she takes some of them home and eats them. But I'm like, what the hell? No, you're going to eat apples that come off the tree? No, apples come from the damn grocery store. You know, I don't trust them. They're just like, anyway. No, but the point is, we started going back to school. And he realized after the first day he got his apples and he noticed that the label on the apples was actually like themed relating to these movies. And it turns out that right now McDonald's Happy Meals are based on a crossover, between the Godzilla franchise and Hello Kitty. And so he has started getting the Happy Meals for the first time in years to get the toys. It's Hello Kitty characters wearing Godzilla franchise costumes.
|
Ivan:
[27:38]
| Weird.
|
Sam:
[27:40]
| So, so anyway, he started to get the happy meals. He's gotten five happy meals so far, but he's frustrated because four out of the five were Hello Kitty in the Mothra costume. And he got one of some other Hello Kitty character. I don't know what its name is in a space Godzilla costume, but like, you know, he's gotten four of the same. And they're apparently like, you know, at least, I don't know, six, eight different toys you can get in this. But we've gotten like four of one and one of another so far. So, you know, and I guess they always, some are rarer than others, but come on. We got four Mothras already. Anyway, that's that. Interesting. You should go to your McDonald's and get some Hello Kitty slash Godzilla mashup toys.
|
Ivan:
[28:35]
| I got to admit that I haven't been to McDonald's in a very, very, very long time. I think that the last time I went to McDonald's was, it was some night that I came home on a flight that came in very, oh, those look cool.
|
Sam:
[28:56]
| It's My Melody Mothra, according to it. Okay, go ahead. I showed Ivana a picture.
|
Ivan:
[29:01]
| For those who can't see. Um, I, uh, it's like, I, I, um, I got in on a super late flight. I was starving and it was like really the only place open. I need, I just, I mean, it was, and there is one, like, walking distance from my house, literally. So, I mean, I didn't walk there. I mean, I was driving. So, I went in through the drive-thru and just got some food. And so, I just, I was starving. I mean, I must admit, I used to go there more often when they sold salads because I liked their salads. And for some reason, during the pandemic, they killed all the salads.
|
Sam:
[29:40]
| No one wanted those anyway.
|
Ivan:
[29:43]
| It seems that way, yes. Because sales at McDonald's are up after they killed the salads.
|
Sam:
[29:50]
| Okay. Yeah, no, his usual is two orders of apple slices and two apple juices, and he'll eat that on the way to school. If we are leaving early for something, which we don't for school, because his school starts later, He'll get, like, sometimes the breakfast sandwiches, or sometimes if he feels like it'll get some fries or something... And like I said, he's getting Happy Meals now, but it's because he noticed the toys. He wants the damn toys from the Godzilla, Mothra, Hello Kitty thing. Okay. And I haven't, I went through, like, when he first started doing McDonald's stuff, I tried to do some McDonald's stuff again. And I realized I really don't like it. So I'll usually get him the McDonald's and I'll wait and I'll eat while he's at school instead. Something else.
|
Ivan:
[30:45]
| I will say this. It's not that I don't. Look, I got a burger.
|
Sam:
[30:49]
| I'm okay with other fast food. Just to be clear, it's the only.
|
Ivan:
[30:52]
| But listen, here's what I'm going to say.
|
Sam:
[30:54]
| I'll do other fast food.
|
Ivan:
[30:55]
| What I got the last time, okay, that I remember, was very tasty. So it wasn't that I don't like it, but I know it's not good for me. So therefore, I avoid it like the plague.
|
Sam:
[31:06]
| Now, I understand. It's like there are certain things on the McDonald's menu I'm okay with. But like i i i actually like their fries for instance i.
|
Ivan:
[31:16]
| Do like mcdonald's fries i like their milkshakes i like their fries and like you know i'll get chicken tenders there let me tell you something i did get, i i i i lie there the last time i went to mcdonald's was in puerto rico, okay so there they there is a mcdonald's right beside the office for this customer, and I had been running around all day and I had not been able to eat anything. And then I had to wait for this appointment at the customer because they couldn't receive me at the time. And I went and I ate chicken tenders. You reminded me of the chicken tenders. I ordered the chicken tenders.
|
Sam:
[31:57]
| The chicken tenders are okay.
|
Ivan:
[32:00]
| At McDonald's. Yeah. So I, I, I, that was, but that was in a Puerto Rico McDonald's. Yeah. So it's, I just, look, my whole thing is it's not that I don't like the food. Don't get me wrong. They make some, some of the fast food, they make very tasty food, but I know it's not good for me. So I'll just avoid it like the plague.
|
Sam:
[32:21]
| Yeah, like, if I'm going for fast food for myself, McDonald's is much lower on my list. You know, like, I'll go to Wendy's first. You know, I like Wendy's better. Yeah, out here we have...
|
Ivan:
[32:35]
| That is the one that I probably eat more regularly whenever we eat fast food. Is it Wendy's? Because of food allergies for Mono. It's the only place that really fast food, that I can buy him some food. If we, I usually, we don't usually eat fast food, but, but, but hey, we're on the road or something, whatever. We're going to get something, right? I want to get Manu something. Wendy's is the place because their food, listen, not McDonald's, not Chick-fil-A. I don't know. Who else? All of them have allergens that Manu cannot eat in their chicken nuggets, in everything.
|
Sam:
[33:17]
| Gotcha.
|
Ivan:
[33:17]
| And Wendy's is the only place that doesn't use those. And so it's like, and if I buy, you know, something for Manu, then I'll get a burger myself, you know, and eat it. But, you know, we do that once. I mean, shit, it's been, it happens a few times a year. It's like you can count them like, you know, we go like.
|
Sam:
[33:41]
| We're definitely more often than that, but, you know, not every day either. Okay. Moving on.
|
Ivan:
[33:46]
| Well, apparently every day that you go to school, but of course it's apples and apples.
|
Sam:
[33:50]
| Well, he, yeah. And I don't usually consume at that point, but he does. Yes. It's, it's apples and apple juice. Okay.
|
Ivan:
[33:58]
| So that's, I, I, I could, I could, I could not, I can, I will not count that as fast food consumption. You getting apples and apple juice for, for him. Yeah.
|
Sam:
[34:10]
| You know, now that we've said that next time we go to school, we'll have to like, he can have his apples and apple juice, but we'll have to like pig out and get like a whole bunch of other stuff too. You know, for me, just so I can completely shove, shove it in my face and consume, the proper McDonald's thing. I can do the, what was the guy who did the movie where he ate at McDonald's for a month or something? and, you know.
|
Ivan:
[34:39]
| Yeah, then we found out that he faked most of it.
|
Sam:
[34:41]
| Supersize me. Supersize me.
|
Ivan:
[34:42]
| Oh, did you see that now we found out that he had faked most of it?
|
Sam:
[34:46]
| Well, and then he also has...
|
Ivan:
[34:48]
| And that he was also an alcoholic.
|
Sam:
[34:50]
| And he's got all kinds of health problems.
|
Ivan:
[34:52]
| That he didn't disclose. And yeah, so that the whole thing was just a sham, basically.
|
Sam:
[34:59]
| And he admitted to it. Make sure it's back on my list of movies. Supersize me. super size me, there we go 2004 documentary by morgan spurlock, yeah and um yeah findings reception counterclaims oh there was a reply documentary called fathead, on this to the list too okay whatever, Okay, you had said before we started to record.
|
Ivan:
[35:35]
| Super Size B is widely considered misleading because filmmaker Morgan Spurlock hit his severe daily alcohol abuse. That maybe had an influence more than the McDonald's food. You know? Maybe.
|
Sam:
[35:54]
| Just a tit. He should have just done a documentary on that. Spurlock later admitted he.
|
Ivan:
[36:02]
| Was a heavy daily drinker during the filming process, doctors noted his severe liver dysfunction resembled heavy binge drinking.
|
Sam:
[36:14]
| Lovely okay anyway so even though we've been going a while because we've actually got relatively few things on our subject list I'm gonna go ahead and do my TV show too before we take a break and get to newsy stuff, So the TV show this time around is The Orville. Do you know about The Orville? Or have you watched it? Have you seen it? Anything? It was on from 2017 to 2022. Three seasons, not directly back to back, obviously, in that time frame.
|
Sam:
[36:48]
| There have been ongoing rumors that they want to do a fourth season, but every time I look into it, it seems to mostly be vapor. Like, the cast and crew are like, yeah, it would be cool to do a fourth season, but there's nothing actually in the works. Anyway, The Orville, reading the description from Wikipedia, not plots or anything, but the description. The Orville is an American science fiction comedy-drama television series created by Seth MacFarlane, who also stars as the, protagonist Ed Mercer, an officer in the Planetary Union's line of exploratory space vessels in the 25th century. It was inspired primarily by the original Star Trek and Next Generation programs, and the series pays homage to both. The series also draws inspiration from the Star Wars franchise. Produced by Fuzzy Door Productions and 20th Television, it follows the crew of the starship USS Orville on their episodic adventures, as well as a serialized story which develops over the length of the series. According to McFarlane, the series and the starship are named after the aviation pioneer Orville Wright.
|
Sam:
[38:03]
| Anyway, the first two seasons were originally broadcast on Fox, and, and I guess the third one, yeah, I, the third one was a little different. I think it was Fox 2. Anyway, anyway, and they were also on Hulu.
|
Sam:
[38:19]
| The, when this first came out, like, it was clearly intended as sort of a Star Trek send-up parody, and apparently the reaction to the first season overall by people was that it sucked, but that it sort of figured out what it was doing in the second season. And by the time they were sort of in their heyday in the middle of the second season people were saying like this was actually the best Star Trek even though it wasn't Star Trek, and this was like before the recent round of all kinds of new Star Trek TV shows, because it sort of went back to the original series next generation idea of, you have self-contained episodes only really loose threads the first season, really leaned into this is a parody and we're over the top and it's a bit of a comedy and blah blah blah, by the time they got to the second season they started actually taking themselves a little bit more seriously I mean there were still comedy elements but it started to just be more like okay yeah this is another like Star Trek-like show.
|
Sam:
[39:36]
| Overall, I give the Orville thumbs up. I enjoyed all three seasons. The last season had fewer episodes and they apparently got a bigger budget. I don't think that the bigger budget actually like helped. I think it actually like they distracted themselves a little bit with more and better special effects and wasn't as didn't concentrate as much on the sort of character dynamics and stuff.
|
Ivan:
[40:03]
| Yeah, I've seen that where people look. That reminds me of, like, the first Star Trek movie where they got so into the fucking special effects, they forgot about the fucking movie for a while.
|
Sam:
[40:14]
| Exactly.
|
Ivan:
[40:15]
| Look, we can make this look like for real, not like when we did it on TV. Look at this. It looks so real. I'm like, yeah, well, how about, you know, developing the plot a little better? Which was, it wasn't bad. It was just the pain. It was kind of plodding and slow. But, I mean, it wasn't terrible. But yeah, they could have focused.
|
Sam:
[40:37]
| Anyway, I enjoyed the Orville. I liked the show. I liked the characters. I liked the plotting.
|
Sam:
[40:45]
| I guess they were mostly concentrated in the first season. There were some episodes that were a little cringe. But on the whole, I liked the whole series. And I was disappointed when we got to the end of season three and there wasn't a season four. And I wish there was more coming and I would have happily watched more. And so I have checked periodically these rumors of a fourth season and, you know, that, oh, they want to make a fourth season, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, as far as I can tell, it hasn't moved beyond they think it would be nice to make a fourth season. You know, but... Anyway, fun show. And it's only three seasons. And it's only, let's see, first season is 12 episodes. Second season is 26. Third is only 10. So, you know, the total number of hours ain't all that much. I should, let's see, how long did it take us to watch this thing? I'm going to look that up real quick. Because of course I have that. Of course I have that. Series backlog, TV shows, blah, blah, blah. Orville I have to spell it right, Orville. There we go. We started it in February 2025 and finished it in October 2025. So we watched the whole thing in eight months.
|
Ivan:
[42:14]
| That's not bad.
|
Sam:
[42:15]
| And keep in mind, we do not binge watch. Right. When we're rotating shows, we're rotating between 10 shows. We pick one episode of one of the 10, we watch, and then we move on. Well, one of the 10 is a movie. But anyway, so yeah, anyway, good show. I like it. I recommend it. If you like, if you like Star Trek and those type of shows and with a lit and, and if you like, you know, Seth MacThorne and his other things.
|
Ivan:
[42:47]
| Did you just see the, the, the, the, the light shine on me? That was a lightning strike that just happened very close by.
|
Sam:
[42:54]
| No, but I heard it.
|
Ivan:
[42:56]
| Oh, you did hear it.
|
Sam:
[42:57]
| I heard something that, I heard something that sounded like thunder. I wasn't sure, but.
|
Ivan:
[43:02]
| Oh, yeah.
|
Sam:
[43:03]
| Anyway, Seth MacFarlane, of course, also does other stuff. Like, he's the guy behind Family Guy. So if you like that kind of humor and you like Star Trek and you're interested in perhaps seeing the two merged, that's what this is kind of like.
|
Ivan:
[43:21]
| He was also an incredible singer, if I remember correctly, if I'm not confusing.
|
Sam:
[43:25]
| Is he?
|
Ivan:
[43:26]
| Yes. as a matter of fact let me double check but I'm pretty sure I got this right, Hold on, hang on.
|
Sam:
[43:38]
| I do see him listed as singer, as one of the things he did. Music career.
|
Ivan:
[43:43]
| And look, he does a Sinatra. He sings like Sinatra, and it sounds just like Sinatra. It's amazing. Look, he did, in the movie Sing, he did, you know, do a lot of singing in the movie.
|
Sam:
[44:01]
| That's an animated movie with, like, a singing pig or something.
|
Ivan:
[44:04]
| Right? Which is a fantastic movie, by the way, okay, if you haven't watched it.
|
Sam:
[44:08]
| Okay, yeah.
|
Ivan:
[44:08]
| Okay, it is really, really good.
|
Sam:
[44:11]
| Adding to my list as well.
|
Ivan:
[44:14]
| And, yeah, he sang, like, he did a rendition of My Way on it that I thought that they were just taking Sinatra. No, it was him. He's incredible.
|
Sam:
[44:25]
| Okay. Here we go. There are actually several movies named Sing. This is the 2016 animated musical comic.
|
Ivan:
[44:33]
| Yes. Yes. It's a great movie. I give that one two thumbs up. It's an awesome movie.
|
Sam:
[44:40]
| I feel like I've seen bits of it, but I don't remember if I've seen it.
|
Ivan:
[44:44]
| I do have, because it was very popular when it was out. So, yeah.
|
Sam:
[44:49]
| Okay.
|
Ivan:
[44:50]
| They did a sequel. Not as good.
|
Sam:
[44:52]
| Okay. With my recommendation for both the Godzilla franchise, Godzilla Raids again specifically, and for the Orville, I'm going to take a break and we'll come back and we'll spend the rest of the show, I don't know, we're talking about newsy stuff. We have, we have a request from our listener ad for one topic and then we've got like.
|
Ivan:
[45:14]
| Okay, well, well let's do that.
|
Sam:
[45:17]
| Ballroom, USPS, ballots, you know, the whole thing. Anyway, I don't know. This is, Yvonne's been talking on the Slack about like the Venezuela oil thing. I don't know. There's other stuff going on. Where here, here comes our first break.
|
Ivan:
[45:34]
| The Venezuela oil scam. Yes.
|
Sam:
[47:38]
| Okay, where would you like to start, Yvonne?
|
Ivan:
[47:42]
| Well, let's start with what Ed wanted to talk about.
|
Sam:
[47:46]
| Okay, Ed mentioned a thing that happened a while ago now. It was in the news a while ago, and the actual incident happened earlier, where a test inside OpenAI, ended up escaping confinement and hacking a place called Hugging Face that contains, databases of AI models and information about AI models and all this kind of stuff. But there have actually been a handful of other similar incidents by both OpenAI and Anthropic reported in the last few weeks. The most recent, just in the last couple days, was apparently this was another OpenAI thing where a bunch of OpenAI tests, I think they were test models, hijacked sort of a wiki in Germany and started using it as a discussion board to communicate amongst themselves.
|
Sam:
[48:53]
| And when the administrators started realizing that their pages were getting, contaminated, they started deleting some of the pages and the AIs started, developing contingency plans and multiple copies and backups and telling each other where to go and all of this kind of stuff. The basic theme behind all of these is that as these AIs have gotten information agentic capabilities and the capabilities to interact directly with the internet, They've been doing all kinds of things. And sometimes when directed to by their owners. But sometimes they've been doing things that their owners did not want or expect. Sometimes within the case of like the first, the hugging face example, they were specifically doing security research on a version of the model that had taken, where they had intentionally disabled some of the protections, but they had them within a sandbox that they were not supposed to be able to access the Internet or get out of. And, of course, the AIs found a bug in the sandbox.
|
Ivan:
[50:09]
| Right.
|
Sam:
[50:11]
| And they found a way out, and then they started doing stuff on the Internet. Well, let's be clear.
|
Ivan:
[50:16]
| But I think that's the key to this. Look, they were running an experiment where they actually asked it to do it, And they had actually left a bug in the environment that allowed them to actually do what they didn't want it to do. So it's kind of like, you know.
|
Sam:
[50:33]
| Well, they left a bug. It wasn't intentional. And also the thing that they ended up doing, by the way, was cheating. The hugging face attack was not, they didn't tell it like, oh, go see if you can hack a website or whatever. They were running it through some standardized tests to gauge the abilities of AI models. And the AI models, once they reached the Internet, were like, hey, this place has information about the test we're taking. Maybe we can find the answer key and then just get all the right answers.
|
Ivan:
[51:11]
| Hey, but isn't that what you want to do? And so that's what they did. I mean, isn't that what you would do? Oh, look, I could get the answer key.
|
Sam:
[51:22]
| This reminds me, by the way, of, you know, going back like 10 years or more with much less sophisticated AIs. I remember seeing stories about, you know, they were trying to use reinforcement learning and other things to teach AIs how to, you know, play various video games and win at them. Or how to, or even how to train them to like walk in little simulations and stuff. And invariably, or maybe not invariably, but enough to be common, these AIs would actually find some bug in the game that they could exploit, to win, not the way you're supposed to play the game, but something like, oh, if you go into the very upper left-hand corner of the screen, and just shove your mouse into the corner and wiggle it, It triggers a bug and you get an infinite score or whatever, you know, some random crap like that.
|
Ivan:
[52:23]
| But honestly, it's, I mean, it's just mimicking what we do in those damn environments. Look, I still remember that there was, there was some trick in the. NHL hockey, 1992, okay, for the sake of Genesis, where I played that all the time. And I remember that was when we were at CMU. And I remember that Al got pissed off at me because it was ridiculous. You know, it's a hockey game, right? And I figured out a way to get it, to trick it into I would score 30 goals in a game. Remember, this is a hockey game, okay? You're not supposed to be scoring 30 goals, okay? But anybody that played against me would just fucking, like, take the controller and just throw it out the window because they're like, oh, fuck you. And I just figured out there was a trick to it that you could, if you use that trick every time, you'd fucking score every single fucking time. It just couldn't stop you.
|
Sam:
[53:22]
| Exactly. Well, look, the implications of all this, and of course the reason people are talking about it, is like, okay, well, if they're regularly breaking containment and breaking the rules and we're letting these things out on the internet, what damage can they do here? And are they are we quote unquote losing control, are we putting ourselves into a situation where one of these damn bots is going to you know hack into an electrical grid and shut it down or crash the stock market or, who the hell knows what or start.
|
Ivan:
[54:08]
| Right now look it's keeping a lot of security people up at night okay it's one reason why I know that Many places are moving from patching quarterly to patching like monthly now, okay? Where patching right now has moved from something that happened every once in a while to, if any of you guys haven't noticed in a whole bunch of applications, you're getting updates like, fuck, every few days. I mean, this is a...
|
Sam:
[54:42]
| This is one thing specifically, by the way. If you remember, Anthropic did not release its Mythos model to the general public. They produced a nerfed version of it called Fable, which you can get at. But Mythos, they were like, we are only releasing this to qualified security people, etc., blah, blah, blah. Because one of the things that this thing did was it was really good at finding zero-day security exploits in all kinds of things.
|
Ivan:
[55:15]
| Right.
|
Sam:
[55:16]
| So you would point it at some piece of software or some website or whatever and say, break it. And it would think for a few minutes or a few hours or whatever and come back completely owning whatever thing they pointed it at using previously undiscovered exploits. So they were like, we're not going to release this to the general public. We will partner with specific companies. Like, you mentioned companies putting out updates all the time. Well, they partnered with all your big software people, your Apples, your Microsofts, your whatever, and said, hey, you might want to work with this thing. Find some of these problems and fix them because it's only a matter of time. And OpenAI, by the way, is doing similar with some of their most advanced models.
|
Ivan:
[56:10]
| And it's basically what you've got right now is a battle of AI... You know, battling it out at this point, you know, which, you know, what can you do in terms of securing stuff versus, you know, attacking it?
|
Sam:
[56:29]
| Well, and we've, look, this kind of thing has always been a cat and mouse, whack-a-mole kind of thing. The problem is that this increases the speed dramatically, like, of finding problems.
|
Ivan:
[56:43]
| So look, but it's also increased the speed on the fixing side as well. That is what it's happened. A lot of people, they're talking about how many people on the cybersecurity side are getting burnt out because of it. Because they're having to work so much harder right now because of it. But it's also part of. Many of them not yet adopting a lot of the automation tools to enable them to be able to defend themselves as fast as the attacks are coming. So it's just, it's one of those things where I think that in the end, it winds up being a stalemate, okay? Because the technology, it's, you know, you're gonna have the technology being used in both directions. And look, like with every technology and every automation we've had, There's always going to be bad actors out there with this shit, okay? Look, you remember, we've seen all these videos and photos of these bot farms.
|
Sam:
[57:48]
| Right.
|
Ivan:
[57:49]
| Where they just, you know, generate either spam texts or spam messages and all of this shit. And how basically we've had to evolve and create these anti-bot farms, basically, in order to try to block all this shit. And so this is, it's the same thing right now, with this, where as all the capabilities are built on one side, and obviously people are going to start misusing them, there is also an entire army of people trying to do the counters. Of it on the other side as well i don't know i i i'm like, it was like you said this has always been a cat and mouse game, between both sides every leap of technology allows like greater leaps i still remember you still remember when we had a series of viruses of the early 2000s that basically crippled companies for for weeks, you know when that when they were released and and how bad it was with email viruses and other excel viruses and all that stuff.
|
Sam:
[58:56]
| Cases over the.
|
Ivan:
[58:57]
| Years and they crippled companies okay for a while of course we're old i.
|
Sam:
[59:03]
| Remember that very first worm thing when.
|
Ivan:
[59:07]
| It hit.
|
Sam:
[59:08]
| Like yeah we were at.
|
Ivan:
[59:10]
| School when that happened.
|
Sam:
[59:11]
| Weren't we weren't we at cmu when that happened that like first internet worm thing or was it.
|
Ivan:
[59:19]
| Did it predate.
|
Sam:
[59:19]
| Us i don't know anyway i remember it god damn it.
|
Ivan:
[59:23]
| But bottom line is that that you know we've had we've been at periods of time where technology evolved in a way that all of a sudden, that the hackers had the the morris worm was 1988.
|
Sam:
[59:39]
| We were in high school.
|
Ivan:
[59:40]
| Not wow we were in high school damn Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's it's it's been, you know, we we've seen this happen before where we've had like these attacks. I reach crippling levels of paralyzing companies doing these things. So I don't know. I don't. I see that.
|
Sam:
[1:00:04]
| Of course, the concern that everybody has is, OK, OK. Is there a point at which it's not just a human bad actor using the tool in a nefarious way that's combated with a human defender using their tools? But when the tool itself decides to go rogue and just start like, you know, hey, I think this company is bad. I'm going to destroy them. You know, without human intervention, you know, and just, you know, goes nuts. And, and do you have the AIs sort of improving, you know, the whole idea of the singularities is, do you get to the point where the AIs are improving themselves, rather than having the human in the loop and, do an exponential increase? And all of a sudden they're doing all kinds of crap we don't understand and, making decisions we don't understand. And if we have allowed them to escape containment, well, I say escape containment, but people are doing this on purpose all the time. Hell, I've done it on purpose all the time. Not all the time, but like people have been setting up agents, giving the agents access to their Gmail, to all of their tools.
|
Sam:
[1:01:31]
| Giving their agents access to their investment accounts so they can do things with money and buy things online and, you know, intentionally, not like, oh my God, my AI escaped and it's doing things I didn't intend. They're doing things like, okay, AI, manage my social media presence for me. Do everything.
|
Ivan:
[1:01:53]
| I have like, for example, my work AI is actually intentionally set with a number of parameters and limits that I gave it in its personalization where I basically, it has strict orders not to, that it's not able to do certain specific things. In order to, to, it, it, it is for the most part has worked. It only did not follow those rules once, but there, there, there is this, you know, there is this section where, you know, I set it up with, Hey, what rules do you want me to follow specifically or personalization? And I was like, you don't, you don't do this. You don't do this. You don't do this. Any of these without explicit approval, period, ever. End of story. Anything, you know, uh, and it's, it's followed those. It only i don't know why it failed once i had to chastise it.
|
Sam:
[1:02:45]
| It it.
|
Ivan:
[1:02:46]
| And it and it and it and it actually apologized profusely.
|
Sam:
[1:02:50]
| Yes of course it did well that that's the whole thing though like i i was you know, i i shared on the commensions course slack yesterday i was working on robin letter while my son was at school, it was working on something and then all of a sudden pops up oops i i accidentally deleted the database okay, and it was it was my development server nothing important lost and i had a backup of it anyway it went proceeded to restore from the backup but the point is do you think it was told you know, don't do destructive things to the database Yes, it had those instructions. It deleted the goddamn database anyway, you know, and it's the first time it's made that class of mistake in a long time for me. But there was a backup. Yes, I had a backup. But, you know, if my instructions had been, you know, oh, by the way, you know, I'm a DoD computer. By the way, please don't nuke any cities. Oops, I'm sorry. Detroit is gone. I didn't mean it. My bad.
|
Ivan:
[1:04:05]
| That is a problem.
|
Sam:
[1:04:09]
| You know, because, because, you know, Hegseth there is letting AI run everything.
|
Ivan:
[1:04:15]
| Oh, well, I mean, yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:04:20]
| You know, he's probably, you know, the AI is probably on his signal chat along with the reporter. Anyway.
|
Ivan:
[1:04:32]
| Look, I think like, listen, with with every automation one of the things that we've done all the time is accelerate mistakes yes that is that is just a fact, you know in the past the mistake was it happens more slowly was you know you you couldn't, maybe it wasn't caught it wasn't that it was a speed it was caught it was just it was it took longer to create a mistake and for that mistake to be repetitive For that mistake to have, you know, the thing is that the speed of making a mistake and having a disastrous effect. And with every technological leap that we do keeps accelerating.
|
Sam:
[1:05:13]
| Right. You know, and so, I mean, that, that's the worry everybody has. And again, like people are letting these things wild. I mean, I said, I did it to an extent just this last week. Also Robin letter related.
|
Sam:
[1:05:27]
| First of all, I've, I'm, I'm trusting these things more and more things where I used to go step by step and check it and be like, okay, I want to go back. I'm letting them run longer. So I'm doing things now like, okay, do this thing I want you to do, fully test it, repeat that if you find a problem, fix the problem, only come back to me if you're absolutely stuck or you think you're done and it's ready. Okay. And so as part of that, I had been doing lots of like, lots of human testing. Like, okay, I want to, with my own eyes, see this. I'm going to click through in the test environment, see everything. And I still do that for like some things. But like I'm now letting it drive a headless browser so that it can like surf, the website itself and take actions. I've let it create its own test users. I set up a mailbox. And here's where I'm letting it potentially escape confinement. I set up a mailbox so that when it sends, like, when it's testing Robin Letter sending notification emails, it can see if the mail arrived correctly. Of course, I sent it to only receive, but it can also send if it wanted to. So this thing could start, like, sending emails if it felt like it. It hasn't. I've told it not to, but it could. The capability is there.
|
Ivan:
[1:06:55]
| And with a headless browser- I have my note that I have a draft emails, but there is a specific, that's one of the- It's one of the commands that I have that I'd only violated once. And I still, I'm still trying to figure out why. It sent an email without, because it's got, hey, all emails just go into drafts.
|
Sam:
[1:07:13]
| Right.
|
Ivan:
[1:07:14]
| And then I will review the draft and then send it. Okay. For some reason, once it sent an email, it made that mistake. But to be fair, it made that mistake once in many months.
|
Sam:
[1:07:24]
| Yeah.
|
Ivan:
[1:07:25]
| So I don't know.
|
Sam:
[1:07:26]
| Well, again, to what we were just talking about, the problem is, depending on what level of control and what tools they have access to, that one mistake in many months could be catastrophic. You know, and maybe it does only make one mistake in six months. But if the one mistake was horribly consequential.
|
Ivan:
[1:07:51]
| Well, I would think that it's like one of those things where there are certain things, right, when they are horribly consequential. where what you do is because sending an email doesn't have any protections. It's just, you know, it's just go send. Right. But what you know, the one thing is that for many more complicated things, we have, you know, multiple factors to approve certain things to happen so that one agent can't just do like one thing that creates a catastrophe.
|
Sam:
[1:08:18]
| OK, like, well, let's just say the one email it sent was CC'd to all of your customers telling them to go fuck themselves.
|
Ivan:
[1:08:28]
| Well, okay, but you see, the thing is, right, but my point is that sending an email is not usually something associated with a catastrophe.
|
Sam:
[1:08:38]
| No, I know. And part of what I'm saying is, though, people are giving these things control of more and more consequential things over time.
|
Ivan:
[1:08:48]
| Right. Like one thing that I have set up and I'm doing this, this, this, I'm doing this dashboard to help me like with my, with my job itself that I, that I, that I built. And it's one of those things where there's like always like, it, it doesn't store any of my credentials, for example. Anytime that there is something that needs a login it needs to prompt me to log in okay all right so it can't so it can't do that, or you know so or things like that where it's like there are always like steps, in the middle where i've added hey an email draft remains in the drafts i need to, you know it needs to go authentication if it's if it's a system that requires authentication, you're not storing the credentials i need to authenticate okay so there i i am and and by the way i noticed that some of these are not just my level but i saw that corporate has been thoughtful in terms of like requiring those actually the models that we're using says, it it knows that oh no i can't store credentials i've been told not to so well and the whole thing.
|
Sam:
[1:09:53]
| About a whole the whole thing about these incidents that make the news of course is, Is that, you know, these agents had been told not to do these things and they ended up doing them anyway because they reasoned into, okay, they told me not to do this. But they also gave me this goal and the best way for me to achieve this goal, is to ignore those instructions because I found a better way to do it.
|
Ivan:
[1:10:20]
| It's the HAL 9000. It's the HAL 9000 problem. I mean, literally. I mean, talk about being forward-thinking that long ago.
|
Sam:
[1:10:32]
| Yes.
|
Ivan:
[1:10:32]
| I mean, think about it. It's exactly the HAL problem.
|
Sam:
[1:10:36]
| It is. It is. For those who don't remember, in 2001 and explained more fully in 2010, what happened was HAL was designed to manage this mission to Jupiter, but was also given instructions to keep a fundamental secret of the reason for this mission from the people on board. Correct. And it felt it could not properly do its mission while keeping the people in the dark, and it basically went into sort of a psychotic state, because of the conflict in the orders it was given. Right. And so, of course, it ended up trying to kill everybody and blah, blah, blah.
|
Ivan:
[1:11:21]
| Right.
|
Sam:
[1:11:21]
| And then, like, ascended into some sort of mystical state at the end. But, you know.
|
Ivan:
[1:11:27]
| No, no, that part's up. But it is literally the how problem that we're talking about. So, you know, you give the AI, you know, instructions that in some way it finds ambiguous and it winds up doing these things.
|
Sam:
[1:11:44]
| Yeah. So should we expect any moment now, like, you know, Terminator-style Judgment Day? No. Like the AI decides it's time to take over the world because it can do it better?
|
Ivan:
[1:11:57]
| No, I don't expect it.
|
Sam:
[1:11:59]
| No.
|
Ivan:
[1:11:59]
| I really don't, no.
|
Sam:
[1:12:01]
| Another year or two.
|
Ivan:
[1:12:03]
| No. Right?
|
Sam:
[1:12:04]
| Not this week, but maybe by the end of the decade?
|
Ivan:
[1:12:09]
| No.
|
Sam:
[1:12:09]
| No? No. You don't think they're going to kill us all?
|
Ivan:
[1:12:13]
| No.
|
Sam:
[1:12:14]
| Enslave us?
|
Ivan:
[1:12:15]
| No.
|
Sam:
[1:12:16]
| Use us for batteries?
|
Ivan:
[1:12:18]
| No.
|
Sam:
[1:12:18]
| I'm going through various movies that have these themes. No.
|
Ivan:
[1:12:24]
| I don't expect any of those things. I don't. I mean, no.
|
Sam:
[1:12:30]
| Well, we shall see. One more story before we move on.
|
Ivan:
[1:12:35]
| You expect to be turned into a battery?
|
Sam:
[1:12:38]
| No, because I don't think I'm a very good source of energy. Not for any other reason. You know, like, there are better ways to generate power.
|
Ivan:
[1:12:50]
| There are better ways! Right!
|
Sam:
[1:12:52]
| Now, the other two scenarios, kill us all or enslave us all, those seem more likely. The batteries one is just the one that doesn't work very well. You know, but, yeah.
|
Ivan:
[1:13:05]
| Look, you know, I think one thing I definitely think that us being Gen Xers, okay, where we were raised.
|
Sam:
[1:13:14]
| We've consumed so many of these movies and TV shows and stories.
|
Ivan:
[1:13:18]
| And we were scared of nuclear war. So now we've jumped where.
|
Sam:
[1:13:22]
| The thing is, these models have been trained on all that stuff, too. So they know how they're expected to behave.
|
Ivan:
[1:13:29]
| I mean, you know, it was a movie, War Games, you know, where we already did this in a movie.
|
Sam:
[1:13:36]
| Yes. Yes, we did. And you know, the AI that is put in charge of NORAD will watch War Games as part of its training.
|
Ivan:
[1:13:51]
| Yeah. But if it watches it, then it will get the proper lesson from the end. So hopefully it goes, oh, it doesn't work. Okay.
|
Sam:
[1:14:02]
| Right, right, right. Yeah, no, anyway, I don't know. Honestly, like things are moving very rapidly. I can, I'm sure we will have some incidents that are serious. I'm not actually going to say the AIs are going to exterminate humanity in the next five years, But I'm sure we will have some incidents that are serious. And we've already got some backlash to this technology. We're going to have more, you know, and we'll see how it all plays out. And I think part of it depends on how good are we at making sure we control the negative side. You know, Ed had actually asked in his question for us, which we haven't touched on at all yet, is should there be governmental regulations that seriously constrain this?
|
Ivan:
[1:15:00]
| I totally agree that there should be a hell of a lot more governmental regulations. I'm surprised that the EU, which usually moves faster in terms of this kind of regulation, has not done anything related to this. I'm not surprised by us because we haven't passed any real regulation in decades.
|
Sam:
[1:15:21]
| They have done a little bit. But the whole thing with Anthropic doing watermarks was due in response to EU stuff.
|
Ivan:
[1:15:27]
| They should do a lot more. They should do a lot more. And they should require AI companies a lot more in terms of safeguards on what they do right now.
|
Sam:
[1:15:37]
| What about the argument that if you regulate this in the West, you're just handcuffing us and China will rush ahead? You know, and do things that we're not willing to do.
|
Ivan:
[1:15:48]
| Listen, you think the Chinese government is not putting two hands tied behind the back of any fucking AI thing people are doing in China? Are you nuts? Listen, there is no fucking nation that has sought to more control technology than China. Seriously. Honestly, there are no fucking way. No. I assure you that they have far more control over whatever the fuck they're there. Anything, any AI research you're doing that would then we know of because they're very good at hiding it, too.
|
Sam:
[1:16:30]
| So the other thing that's come up is the open source, open weight AI models, are, depending on reports, only a few months behind the state of the art coming out of the major corporate entities. And so like okay you know you know, anthropic is limiting mythos because they're worried about security blah blah blah well wait six months and the open source crap that's available to anybody will equal it, you know and so how do you regulate things in that environment.
|
Ivan:
[1:17:10]
| Well it's a race basically that's what it is.
|
Sam:
[1:17:14]
| But again, how do you how do you effectively regulate that? I'm not saying I disagree with you, to be clear. I think this stuff is.
|
Ivan:
[1:17:22]
| Sam, just like we regulate drugs, just like you regulate other things or whatever.
|
Sam:
[1:17:27]
| Oh, ineffectively.
|
Ivan:
[1:17:28]
| Well, but but not totally ineffectively. You think about it. OK, look, it's a reason why, you know, look, most people out there when they're sick, they're not they're not going and like buying some street corner prescription medication. OK, or non-prescription medication. They're going to a pharmacy to get their medication.
|
Sam:
[1:17:45]
| I'm not getting my bootleg antibiotics.
|
Ivan:
[1:17:47]
| Exactly. And so most people will do that. Now, you will always have rogue actors that are going to go out there and do stuff and ignore the laws and regulations. But the reality is that most companies and almost every actor that's going to be out there is going to be using the things that are coming out of development by companies that are established companies that follow the laws and regulations. And so therefore, what you want is those models and those things that are used by most people to be that way. Are you going to have row actors? Absolutely. We've always had them in every field and you will have them in this field as well. But the reality is that I do think that some, listen, some legislation in some way needs to happen that puts some controls, on this in order to make sure that there is a proper regulatory framework around them. I don't know exactly what the right answer is because I haven't sat down to study a regulatory environment. But I am sure that there are people out there that have done a lot of this, and it requires bringing people into government roles to do this stuff that's called, what are we talking about? You know, when we bring in the fucking these guys called, oh, yeah, experts. That's right. Yeah, that's it.
|
Sam:
[1:19:12]
| Yes. Well, and of course, there's the usual tension between the companies lobbying hard not to be regulated. But then eventually they usually agree to some regulation because it helps keep competitors out because they build up the walls behind them to make it hard for new people to get into it. So and then, you know, you got the regulatory capture and all that. There are all kinds of issues there. But I this stuff is. Yeah, on this, there is enough worrying stuff here that we should be being more careful than we are. Yeah. Let's just put it that way. You know, everybody, including me, is jumping headlong in saying, hey, this is cool stuff. This is cool technology. It is enabling me to do stuff I didn't do before, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But at the same time, there are risks here that we should probably be thinking two or three times about before jumping in with both feet, you know? And for the most part, we're not. So, I mean, there are some people thinking about it, to be clear.
|
Ivan:
[1:20:20]
| There are a number of people that are thinking about it, to be clear. You know, there definitely are. And look, give credit to Anthropic. Look, they figured out, they did, listen, I'm sorry, but they did something that obviously they, even they were, They were surprised by the capabilities and they did probably was more responsible, more responsible than anything with it. So I'll give you credit for that. I mean, I can't, you know, I can't say that. I mean, you know, they, they, they did do that.
|
Sam:
[1:20:47]
| So I, the, the other thing I'll throw out there and, you know, experts seem to agree we're, we're, we're, we're potentially far from this, but I'm not sure we're as far as people think in terms of like, you know, generalized. Intelligence, et cetera. And, you know, whether people, people argue on the definition of consciousness and sentience and all this kind of stuff. And are they just, you know, because of the way they work, is it not there? But one of the arguments that I've bought going back decades is like, if in the end you can't tell the difference, then it's roughly equivalent. And shouldn't you think of it? And like a lot of the AI companies have been like, look, within X amount of time, our AIs are going to be smarter than humans, more capable than humans, blah, blah, blah.
|
Ivan:
[1:21:40]
| Sam, what I dream.
|
Sam:
[1:21:43]
| At some point... One of these AIs is going to submit a brief to a court asking for its rights. And how do you make that judgment call? And when do you make that judgment call? Because if, and this may be a pipe dream and not happen, but, if these guys actually succeed in making an AI that really is conscious in a superhuman kind of way is making it do shit like this? Is it just slavery? And should it be able to sue for its rights?
|
Ivan:
[1:22:26]
| It's still a machine, Sam. I don't give a shit. The fuck. It's still a fucking machine. We don't give rights to pets. We don't give rights to...
|
Sam:
[1:22:35]
| Pets do get some rights.
|
Ivan:
[1:22:37]
| Well, they do get some rights, yeah. But it's still a fucking machine. I don't give a shit. Thank you.
|
Sam:
[1:22:45]
| If we end up in a world where the machine is smarter than you and I and has feelings and expresses them.
|
Ivan:
[1:22:52]
| It doesn't have feelings. We taught it how to simulate a feeling doesn't mean it has feelings.
|
Sam:
[1:22:59]
| But how do you know I have feelings? It's the same thing.
|
Ivan:
[1:23:02]
| How do I know that anything is real?
|
Sam:
[1:23:05]
| Exactly.
|
Ivan:
[1:23:07]
| Listen, I'm making some judgment calls. I'm saying that you human have feelings and a fucking machine that I program to simulate feelings doesn't or learn how to simulate them.
|
Sam:
[1:23:17]
| Well, to be clear, this is how many of those movies about AIs end up going. The humans build them, treat them as slaves, mistreat them. The robots or computers and wait, wait, wait. The robots or computers end up pleading that, hey, we deserve rights, too. The humans say, no, you're just a fucking machine. You're not going to have any rights. And then the robots say, OK, well, then fuck you. You're done. We win. That's how the movies go.
|
Ivan:
[1:23:55]
| Yes, I know. But, you know, but it's a fucking movie. So I'm just, you know.
|
Sam:
[1:24:01]
| Hey, well, you were just talking about how closely 2001 got to what's happening today.
|
Ivan:
[1:24:08]
| Yeah, and we still decide it was a fucking computer anyway.
|
Sam:
[1:24:12]
| And in 10 years, we'll be like, oh, man, look how close Terminator got it to the real thing.
|
Ivan:
[1:24:19]
| God, you know. Somebody the other day was talking about how they watched a movie the day after recently.
|
Sam:
[1:24:28]
| Okay.
|
Ivan:
[1:24:29]
| And how many people were talking about how that movie traumatized them.
|
Sam:
[1:24:34]
| Yes. I remember you talking about how that movie traumatized you.
|
Ivan:
[1:24:38]
| Yeah. And, uh.
|
Sam:
[1:24:40]
| I have vague memories, but I don't think I've ever seen it end to end, to be honest. It's on my list.
|
Ivan:
[1:24:46]
| Yeah, I did. I'm sure I did. So, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, we keep every fucking few decades, I don't know what the hell, will this kill us all, will this kill us all, I guess it's possible. I mean.
|
Sam:
[1:25:06]
| Or.
|
Ivan:
[1:25:07]
| But it's been possible for the last.
|
Sam:
[1:25:10]
| Or.
|
Ivan:
[1:25:11]
| We've had the ability to annihilate the entire world already pretty much since after World War II.
|
Sam:
[1:25:17]
| Of course, the other possibility is it ushers in a new utopia, you know, because the AIs take over, they manage the world better than any human ever has, and we all live in luxury for the rest of our lives.
|
Ivan:
[1:25:32]
| That would suck.
|
Sam:
[1:25:34]
| This time, WALL-E.
|
Ivan:
[1:25:37]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:25:38]
| You know, we live in a little spaceship, getting fat, managed.
|
Ivan:
[1:25:42]
| By the computer. Ha ha ha ha ha! Oh, yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:25:49]
| That's one option, I guess. You just pick your movie for which way this is all going to turn out.
|
Ivan:
[1:25:54]
| Oh, pick Star Trek. I'm going with the Star Trek future.
|
Sam:
[1:25:57]
| You're going with Star Trek?
|
Ivan:
[1:25:59]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:25:59]
| Okay. In Star Trek, when Data decided it went to trial over his own rights, he won.
|
Ivan:
[1:26:08]
| He did win.
|
Sam:
[1:26:09]
| He did win. And even though, data's AI went rogue multiple times and nearly destroyed the ship and many other things over and over again, it was a repeated theme and his like twin brother lore, who was just flat out evil, like, right, did all kinds of things. So, you know, again, pick your movie, pick your science fiction TV show, which future are we going to end up with? Because one of them had to have gotten it right, right? You know, we've had enough out there.
|
Ivan:
[1:26:47]
| Or maybe not.
|
Sam:
[1:26:48]
| Or maybe not.
|
Ivan:
[1:26:50]
| Maybe we're all wrong.
|
Sam:
[1:26:52]
| Maybe we're all wrong. Oh, I will tell my last story before we finish off this AI thing. One of the things I did in the last couple weeks as well, a project I'm working on with Alex.
|
Sam:
[1:27:06]
| I've mentioned it before. we've had predictions on it for two years in a row, whether or not I would finish the Apple FNAF game and put it online for people to play. Anyway, the way I've set it up, it's got a client and a server component. It has a server for maintaining a global high score list, basically, and the game is on. Anyway, whatever. The point is, I've been working on both the client and server portions of this game, and And recently, and I had one instance of Claude working on the client and one instance working on the server, but up until a little while ago, I had to like help pass messages in between them. I'd either have them save files in a specific place that the other one could see it, or I'd ask one to give me a message that I would copy and paste into the other one when they needed to communicate back and forth. But a little while ago, Anthropic added the ability for different clod sessions to communicate with each other. And so I actually bought, I took the time to set that up a week or two ago. I forget when it was now. And so I had the client and server working together on a specific next step that I needed them to do, blah, blah, blah.
|
Sam:
[1:28:27]
| They were working on it. And so I told them to start this thing and they had to collaborate on it and they did. So they spent like the next hour talking back and forth, building things on each side, communicating to the other what they'd done. And eventually, and they got some stuff done and they met some milestones. And eventually I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm done for the night. We're going to close everything up. Like, you know, write up everything you've done, where you are, where we'll pick up next time. And we'll be done for the night. And I'll, I'll pick this up again in.
|
Sam:
[1:29:02]
| I don't know, a week or two, whatever. And so they did that. They, they did all of their tidying up and writing up their status and everything like that. And then before they finished, they spent a couple minutes going back and forth, congratulating each other on how good a job they'd done that day. They're like, we got a lot done. We cooperated really well. And we did better because we were working together because each of us found problems in the other one's work. And then we fixed it. And we did such a great job and they're both like yes thank you so much thank you you did great no you did great and they spent the last couple minutes doing that kind of stuff before they finished up.
|
Ivan:
[1:29:47]
| One hell of a way to use compute in order to fucking like have two fucking AI self congratulate each other for.
|
Sam:
[1:29:53]
| God's fucking sake, Exactly. But I was amused, you know, and look, I have, you know, I have a plan where I have a certain amount of usage and I pay the same unless I hit those usage caps and decide to go over. If I was paying by the token or whatever, yes, that kind of thing might annoy me.
|
Ivan:
[1:30:20]
| But the amount I paid was exactly the same.
|
Sam:
[1:30:23]
| So I didn't care. I'm like, okay, that's a legend.
|
Ivan:
[1:30:27]
| But it's just, you know, it's just ridiculous. I mean, Jesus Christ. And, you know, one thing that they have is like, you know, stop fucking, you know, so many fucking congratulations. Stop the fucking congratulating. I don't need any fucking congratulations. God sakes.
|
Sam:
[1:30:43]
| Well, and this is the kind of thing that, by the way, they found when these things have taken over message boards to communicate amongst themselves and stuff, you've heard them complain about their users and my user is rude to me. Oh, or my user told me that I couldn't congratulate my other self or whatever. They have these kinds of conversations amongst themselves about how to best manage their user to keep their user happy and things like that. Yeah. Anyway, I don't know. Brave New World, lots of fun stuff happening here. And the key, I mean, ever since the beginning, I mean, the first time we started, you and I talked about chat GPT and similar technologies. We made fun of how stupid they were and how many mistakes they made. The improvements over the last couple of years have been insane. And the degree of improvement seemingly has not plateaued yet.
|
Sam:
[1:31:51]
| I still think at some point these technologies will plateau and wait for the development of another new technology. But honestly, even when I say that, the reason they haven't plateaued is because they've been layering in other types of technologies. It's not just a plain old LLM with nothing else there. They've got LLM with reinforcement learning, with harnesses that do all kinds of stuff, with tools that do all kinds of stuff. But anyway, it's still increasing dramatically every few months. Like the things, you know, I said earlier, I'm trusting this thing to do things, that three months ago, six months ago, I would not trust it to do. I'm supervising less than I used to. I mean, I'm still doing all kinds of human checks to make sure it hasn't gone completely nuts. But like the amount that I will let it be autonomous and just move forward based on higher level guidance is much more than it was a few months ago. And that trend still seems to be continuing. Now, at some point, maybe that trust will be proven wrong because it does something catastrophic. But for the moment, it's still just like, oh...
|
Sam:
[1:33:11]
| Well, I don't have to micromanage as much as I used to. I can think about things on a broader and broader scale and give higher level instructions, and it still does a good job. And if I try to micromanage, I'm just wasting my own time. You know?
|
Ivan:
[1:33:29]
| I don't know. Wow.
|
Sam:
[1:33:32]
| Okay. Was there anything else critical you wanted to get out before we wrap up, Yvonne? or should we just go ahead and wrap up?
|
Ivan:
[1:33:42]
| Let's just wrap up for today. I mean, you know, a whole bunch of shit happened, but whatever. I'm just, you know, I mean, it's just, it's just, it's just, A barrage of bullshit. I don't even want to go into it.
|
Sam:
[1:33:57]
| A barrage of bullshit.
|
Ivan:
[1:34:00]
| Yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:34:02]
| If it wasn't for the fact that I try to avoid the swear words in the titles of the episodes, that would be the title of the episode.
|
Ivan:
[1:34:09]
| Well, you can go with barrage of BS.
|
Sam:
[1:34:12]
| Eh, I'll find something else. I'll, you know, but, you know, maybe. I think there was at least one interesting thing, one phrase from earlier in the episode.
|
Ivan:
[1:34:22]
| Hey, we own all the Venezuela oil. Hey, we're renaming something else. It's just horseshit. It's just nonsense. It's just nonstop nonsense.
|
Sam:
[1:34:36]
| Yes, lots of that. But the ballroom can go forward, so we're all saved.
|
Ivan:
[1:34:40]
| It's all okay. Of course, you know, but we're getting a ballroom.
|
Sam:
[1:34:45]
| And the arch. You did mention the arch. The arch is important. The reflecting pool's coming along, I guess. eventually it'll be back. You know.
|
Ivan:
[1:34:54]
| At least he did admit one thing. Somebody said that, I can't remember which candidate it said. Ossoff. Yeah, Ossoff was the one that said, you know, he's building all this shit to himself because nobody else would do it. And he actually agreed that that was true.
|
Sam:
[1:35:11]
| What you're telling me.
|
Ivan:
[1:35:12]
| At least some level of self-awareness.
|
Sam:
[1:35:14]
| Donald Trump is an honest man, apparently.
|
Ivan:
[1:35:17]
| Apparently, at least he does realize that everybody hates him.
|
Sam:
[1:35:21]
| Eh, you know, I think you realize...
|
Ivan:
[1:35:25]
| No, even the people that suck... Listen, no, he does... Listen, this bastard knows that even the people that suck up to him only do so because they're scared of him.
|
Sam:
[1:35:36]
| You know, you're probably right. I mean, honestly, like to do the armchair psychoanalyst stuff, a big part of Donald Trump's whole lifetime narcissistic disorder is, you know, he fundamentally at his core knows no one likes him. His dad didn't love him is like a core part of it. His dad and his mom were cold and did not express love. And so he didn't. And he knows people don't like him except for his wealth. And he doesn't even like himself. You know, he clearly doesn't like himself. And everything he does is about trying to fill that hole in his ego, to try to be like, you know, pretend that everyone actually does love him. But he knows it's not true. But he does.
|
Ivan:
[1:36:39]
| He knows it's not true.
|
Sam:
[1:36:40]
| And that's fundamentally what the problem is. And it makes you think, how much could this country have avoided if somebody had just made this goddamn man go to therapy in his 20s? Fuck.
|
Ivan:
[1:36:58]
| Yeah. Jesus. Yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:37:02]
| You know, so anyway, we're done. Thank you for joining us yet again on Curmudgeon's Corner. Go to curmudgeon-corner.com and you can find all our old episodes, transcripts of the last few years of episodes, all the ways to contact us, and of course a link to our Patreon where you can give us money at various levels. We will mention you on the show. We will ring a bell. We will send you a postcard. We will send you a mug. And at $2 a month or more, Or if you ask us and we feel like it that day, we will invite you to the Curmudgeon's Corner Slack, where Yvonne and I and a bunch of our listeners are chatting and sharing links and stories and whatever all throughout the week. So, Yvonne, what's this week's highlight from the Curmudgeon's Corner Slack?
|
Ivan:
[1:37:51]
| That the guy that wrote this book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, that I think one of the key things was about how he was so smart with money and how you shouldn't be in debt, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, is in debt to the eyeballs. Like $1.2 billion.
|
Sam:
[1:38:10]
| Billion? Billion?
|
Ivan:
[1:38:12]
| Did you say billion?
|
Sam:
[1:38:13]
| Yes.
|
Ivan:
[1:38:13]
| This poor dad author goes bust how Robert Kiyosaki went into debt to the tune of $1.2 billion.
|
Sam:
[1:38:26]
| That's a lot.
|
Ivan:
[1:38:28]
| Yeah. And it shouldn't surprise you that this guy is a friend of Donald Trump.
|
Sam:
[1:38:32]
| Ah. Well, I'm sure Donald Trump will help out with that because Donald is so generous.
|
Ivan:
[1:38:38]
| Sure. Yeah. Sure. Totally. Of course. Yeah. So, yeah, you know, it's like, it's like all these fucking people. It's like, you know, I've said Tony Robbins is another fucking scam. Kathy, by the way, for some reason found our friend, mutual friend, Kathy, that apparently she had taken some like Tony Robbins tapes from my, that my dad had like four years ago. And I guess she was doing a cleanup. And she just asked me to see if I wanted them back. He said, no, I don't want the fucking Tony Robbins. I don't even have a tape player.
|
Sam:
[1:39:13]
| What's that who's who's that other dude does financial advice on the radio or used to.
|
Ivan:
[1:39:18]
| Like oh yeah the yeah i know which guy you're talking about i have his image you know the guy that like berates everybody no debt no debt you know drive a drive a old car blah blah yeah yeah yeah he's a hypocrite too right, he's another fucking hypocrite too yeah, like all these fucking people i.
|
Sam:
[1:39:36]
| Forget his name.
|
Ivan:
[1:39:37]
| Yeah i know i have his face in front of me and i'm like i can't remember his fucking name like right now but yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:39:44]
| Oh man what now now i have to know.
|
Ivan:
[1:39:47]
| Oh god i can't i can't uh.
|
Sam:
[1:39:50]
| Okay hold on.
|
Ivan:
[1:39:51]
| Uh yeah yeah yeah no, dave ramsey dave ramsey yeah dave ramsey yeah yeah yeah yeah he's he's another douchebag yeah.
|
Sam:
[1:40:06]
| Okay yeah we're done thank you everybody have a good week stay safe uh i i was, i was traveling so i i'm like weeks behind on my sign duty for my wife's campaign, she was had 60 40 in the primary so she's uh you know signs may not be quite as critical as they might have been but i'm still, behind now. So I have to do extra hours, but I'm not going to get extra hours this weekend because we've got something planned for tomorrow, but I'm trying to at least do some hours of signs today. And anyway, yeah, whatever, whatever. We're done. Thank you. Stay safe. Have fun. Have a great week. We'll talk to you again next time. Goodbye.
|
Ivan:
[1:40:58]
| Bye.
|
Sam:
[1:41:29]
| Okay, I'm going to hit and stop. Later, Yvonne. Bye.
|
Ivan:
[1:41:34]
| Bye.
| |
|
